ToonForum - Newcastle United Forum

Duke wrote:

Matthieu wrote:The Faroe Islands are currently beating the Greeks!

Greece are f***ing horrendous.

2 points off of six games, they are the top seed in their group as well. WTF happened

eleven months ago they were a penalty shoot-out away from the world cup quarterfinals.

biggeordiedave wrote:

Bodacious Benny wrote:
It's a debate that's been had many times before on here, but all the tiny nations would have more chance developing as footballing nations by playing each other and the best one or two get a crack at qualifying. How far have San Marino come in the past 25 years of getting spanked every week? What's the point in that?

They have a population of just over 30,000 . They're hardly going to get a full squad of world class professionals out of that. Should Wales be barred from competing with the big boys? They've only managed to get to a couple of tournaments in their entire history.

No they're not going to develop world class players, but you'd expect some kind of progression from rank amateurs over the past two decades. Watching their matches (and the likes of Gibraltar) is like watching a friendly between a PL club and a conference side. It's so embarrassing that the germany players didn't even celebrate their goals yesterday as it was a piss take.

Every nation has a right to compete and not allowing a nation to do so because some people think they aren't good enough would be very dangerous not to mention disgraceful.

Where do you stop. Pretty much everyone thinks England won't win the Euros so should we ban them from the finals despite them topping their group? In fact let's not even have the tournament, Germany are favourites so let's just give them the trophy now and not bother with the whole thing.

TJR wrote:Every nation has a right to compete and not allowing a nation to do so because some people think they aren't good enough would be very dangerous not to mention disgraceful.

Where do you stop. Pretty much everyone thinks England won't win the Euros so should we ban them from the finals despite them topping their group? In fact let's not even have the tournament, Germany are favourites so let's just give them the trophy now and not bother with the whole thing.

International football should have a tiered system, just like every domestic league In the world does.

Bodacious Benny wrote:

biggeordiedave wrote:
They have a population of just over 30,000 . They're hardly going to get a full squad of world class professionals out of that. Should Wales be barred from competing with the big boys? They've only managed to get to a couple of tournaments in their entire history.

No they're not going to develop world class players, but you'd expect some kind of progression from rank amateurs over the past two decades. Watching their matches (and the likes of Gibraltar) is like watching a friendly between a PL club and a conference side. It's so embarrassing that the germany players didn't even celebrate their goals yesterday as it was a piss take.

I think it would send out the message that football is elitist and if you're not up to standard then you shouldn't be allowed to compete at a certain level. Do you disagree with the format of the FA Cup? For me, one of the things that makes it so good is that Blyth can play against Man Utd. I realise the lesser teams have to play each other for several rounds before the PL teams even enter, but that's because there are an awful lot more of them. In International football, it's the other way round. I love the fact that these teams are given a chance. Look at the Faroe Islands!

Bodacious Benny wrote:

TJR wrote:Every nation has a right to compete and not allowing a nation to do so because some people think they aren't good enough would be very dangerous not to mention disgraceful.

Where do you stop. Pretty much everyone thinks England won't win the Euros so should we ban them from the finals despite them topping their group? In fact let's not even have the tournament, Germany are favourites so let's just give them the trophy now and not bother with the whole thing.

International football should have a tiered system, just like every domestic league In the world does.

The international calendar is small though. There is only two years between major tournaments with only and handful of available dates for matches within those two season because of the extensive club football calender's.

I'd understand your argument a bit more if these teams were making it to major tournament without winning games but that isn't the case and that is why we have a qualification process. Every nation has a right to try and qualify and the integrity of the competition is diminished if nations are stopped from attempting to qualify because people deem they aren't good enough before giving them a chance to prove if they are.

The point of the qualifiers is to give teams a chance to prove they are good enough to qualify for the upcoming major tournament.

Bodacious Benny wrote:

TJR wrote:Every nation has a right to compete and not allowing a nation to do so because some people think they aren't good enough would be very dangerous not to mention disgraceful.

Where do you stop. Pretty much everyone thinks England won't win the Euros so should we ban them from the finals despite them topping their group? In fact let's not even have the tournament, Germany are favourites so let's just give them the trophy now and not bother with the whole thing.

International football should have a tiered system, just like every domestic league In the world does.

****, I completely agree with TJR.

It's why you play the games ffs. There are 54 members of UEFA, they all deserve their chance.

To those of you who want a tiered system, bore off, there already is one, it's called group stage qualifying.

From a purely neutral point of view, I love watching the minnows get their chance. I stream Faroe Islands/Liechtenstein (there's a great book about them btw), etc... all the time because when they do something well, well it brings a bit of joy back to an otherwise boring, commercialized, septic sport.

And again, for the idiots who think they "water down the competition" or it's a "piss-take" well they are in the QUALIFYING stage, it's not as if they're in the actual tournament are they? ... and if they do get in, like Iceland might, like Wales might well good for them FFS, they beat the odds and defeated "better" sides.

TJR wrote:

Bodacious Benny wrote:
International football should have a tiered system, just like every domestic league In the world does.

The international calendar is small though. There is only two years between major tournaments with only and handful of available dates for matches within those two season because of the extensive club football calender's.

I'd understand your argument a bit more if these teams were making it to major tournament without winning games but that isn't the case and that is why we have a qualification process. Every nation has a right to try and qualify and the integrity of the competition is diminished if nations are stopped from attempting to qualify because people deem they aren't good enough before giving them a chance to prove if they are.

The point of the qualifiers is to give teams a chance to prove they are good enough to qualify for the upcoming major tournament.

I don't often agree with you TJR but you've got it right on this one.

It's quite similar to the argument of of the ten thousand qualifying stages of the Champions/Europe league, it's all **** to wear down and have the smaller clubs beat each other so at the end of the day all the big marketable clubs are sure to be in the group stage, every year. It's so lame, which is why nobody gives a f*** about group stage games.

In purely sporting terms, it should be just like it was in the cup winners cup.

Win the national cup? alright you're in, regardless of what country you are representing.

A tiered system would be s***. All teams deserve a chance to qualify.

What difference does it make if Gibraltar are allowed to compete? International qualifiers are pointless and generally uncompetitive anyway, at least half the teams in each group are poor.

Northern Ireland are actually going to do it . Game in hand against the Faroe Islands and can go 5 points clear of Hungary with 5 games left if they win it

edit: wait they actually don't have a game in hand . But they've already played the top team twice

I went to watch a qualifier in Luxembourg once and Luxembourg scored a goal but still got hammered. The entire city went nuts partying and it was an awesome night.

Matthieu wrote:

Bodacious Benny wrote:
International football should have a tiered system, just like every domestic league In the world does.

****, I completely agree with TJR.

It's why you play the games ffs. There are 54 members of UEFA, they all deserve their chance.

To those of you who want a tiered system, bore off, there already is one, it's called group stage qualifying.

From a purely neutral point of view, I love watching the minnows get their chance. I stream Faroe Islands/Liechtenstein (there's a great book about them btw), etc... all the time because when they do something well, well it brings a bit of joy back to an otherwise boring, commercialized, septic sport.

And again, for the idiots who think they "water down the competition" or it's a "piss-take" well they are in the QUALIFYING stage, it's not as if they're in the actual tournament are they? ... and if they do get in, like Iceland might, like Wales might well good for them FFS, they beat the odds and defeated "better" sides.

Iceland and Wales are hardly the same level as San Marino etc

I think there's ways to do it though. Rather than adding an extra qualifying round have them in a separate league, winner of that plays the lowest ranked second place team in the other groups in a playoff. That way you don't have the pointless 10-0 games, plus the 'minnow' is far more likely to qualify for a tournament in a one off two legged game than in the current format. It's not that outlandish and fairly similar to the Oceania World Cup qualifying.

I don't think the Faroes result is that enormous mind, they're not that s*** and were actually higher ranked than Wales going into World Cup qualifying.

Bodacious Benny wrote:

Matthieu wrote:
****, I completely agree with TJR.

It's why you play the games ffs. There are 54 members of UEFA, they all deserve their chance.

To those of you who want a tiered system, bore off, there already is one, it's called group stage qualifying.

From a purely neutral point of view, I love watching the minnows get their chance. I stream Faroe Islands/Liechtenstein (there's a great book about them btw), etc... all the time because when they do something well, well it brings a bit of joy back to an otherwise boring, commercialized, septic sport.

And again, for the idiots who think they "water down the competition" or it's a "piss-take" well they are in the QUALIFYING stage, it's not as if they're in the actual tournament are they? ... and if they do get in, like Iceland might, like Wales might well good for them FFS, they beat the odds and defeated "better" sides.

Iceland and Wales are hardly the same level as San Marino etc

Iceland and Wales haven't qualified for many more tournaments than San Marino though .

They're undeniably a few steps up in ability tho.

Every member association deserves its chance, regardless of level.

This is the point of sport, a chance for everyone to compete and prove their skill (or maybe even lack there of) on an equal playing field, you know, where you actually play football games.

A tiered system would further destroy the spirit that the marketers already do in making sport a "product"

Anyway I leave you with this...

Bodacious Benny wrote:They're undeniably a few steps up in ability tho.

Of course, but under your rules they would have been chucked out years ago. Their lowest ranking ever was 131 in 2012 and they've never qualified for anything, ever. Now they're ranked 37th and on the cusp of qualifying for a major tournament for the first time.

We should ban the top 10 ranked national teams in Europe from competing.

Unless Scotland make the top 10....